From: bglover@netcom.com (William Glover) Subject: NRA-TV summary 10-25-95 To: craig@mainstream.com Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 16:31:35 +0000 (GMT) NRA-TV broadcast summary ... 10-25-95 Crass commercial announcement ... consider patronizing these NRA-TV sponsors; Barrons Investment guide .... 800-714-3100 VISA Classic credit card .... 800-571-5775 BestQuotes Financial data.... 800-408-0004 Washington Times Weekly edition .... 800-311-8355 ( great paper :) Tell 'em you heard about their services through NRA-TV :-}. This summary is prepared by William L. Glover, in the spirit of the volunteer service to the internet community ... bglover@netcom.com Background... NRA-TV is the official NRA TV channel. NRA bills it as the weekly magazine of news and views for gun owners. NRA-TV is on Galaxy 7 transponder 20 at 10:00 PM EST, broadcast weekly on Wednesday. The network that NRA-TV is on is called NET(National Empowerment TV), the phone number is 800-NET-5555 or 202-544-3200. The NRA pays NET for the broadcast time to air NRA-TV as an affiliate broadcaster. The funds for the show come from the NRA/ILA. I my opinion this is the best thing the NRA has ever done to bring the RKBA out of the shadows and to the public. Please support the NRA-TV show by phoning contribution to NRA/ILA at 1-800-392-8683 or mail contributions to NRA/ILA 11250 Waples Mill Road, Fairfax VA 22030. NET is a non-profit TV network and will gladly accept donations at 1-800-5000-NET. AND THEY LISTEN...NRA-TV has an internet e-mail address, NET@NRA.org for feedback on the show. Drop Mrs. Tanya Metaksa a line with your comments. My editorial comments are in brackets[]. This is a summary report, not a verbatim transcription. Archives of these summaries are available from; world wide web at http://www.portal.com/~chan/nra/tv/ or via ftp at ftp://ftp.shell.portal.com/pub/chan/nra/tv/ Want more RKBA info - point your browser at //http://www.portal.com/~chan/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- INTRODUCTION SEGMENT...Makris: ... First we saw it in the government killings at Ruby Ridge then we witnessed it in the firestorm at Waco, and now many Americans again see the face of big brother in proposed legislation that will give federal police broad new powers. A new federal blank check to wire tap, to investigate to conduct warrant-less searches and to harass law abiding citizens. With the public's growing distrustful of law enforcement and concern the government is looking the other way, several organizations have put aside their differences to fight for what we share as Americans. The American Civil Liberties Union has joined with the NRA and a dozen other groups in that fight to oppose further encroachment of individual rights. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- NEWS SEGMENT...Ginny Simone, Special Correspondent, from the press conference announcing the coalition to bring federal law enforcement back under control. Ginny Simone: A call to abolish the BATF, Sen. Spector has made it very clear that they went overboard at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Spector says he is now convinced that the time has come to abolish the BATF. But Spector's call for disbanding the BATF was met with resistance from the Treasury department. The Treasury Secretary says that "it would be a mistake to take apart an agency which ,fights guns ..." [gee maybe that is the problem, shouldn't they fight crime?] The FBI suspended another agent in connection with Ruby Ridge ..bringing the total suspended FBI agents to six. Simone: An unusual coalition of organizations led by the NRA are calling for THOROUGH investigation into the policies and practices of federal law enforcement. All of this in the wake of the Ruby Ridge hearings on capital hill, hearings which prove that over zealous tactics often leads to tragedy. This is the same call that the NRA/ACLU coalition had made three years ago. A coalition made up of groups from the left, right and center of the political spectrum. [Testimony of Freeh, if you haven't heard it you should] Quotes from various coalition partners. CCRKBA, John Snyder: I think Freeh's attitude in the wake of the hearings is outrageous. He refused to accept responsibility for what happened at Ruby Ridge. And I think the failure on the part of bureaucratic officials to see the undermining of civil rights that is going on in their own agencies is outrageous in terms of what that means to the public. Dir. ACLU WDC Office - Laura Murphy: We are talking hear today about systemic problems in these agencies, we are talking about the fact there is over 100 federal police agencies and that they are not guided by a common standard that shows regard for the civil and Constitutional rights of our citizens. Simone: Rights that need to be protected, a public trust in law enforcement that needs to be restored. and a partnership of civil rights organizations once again calling for a national commission to insure accountability and object oversight. NRA/ILA Executive Director Tanya Metaksa: In January 1994, NRA and a host of other civil rights organizations formed a coalition. This coalition asked President Bill Clinton to establish a national commission to ensure accountability and top- notch leadership in federal law enforcement. President Clinton did not respond. In January 1995, the bond was still fraying, so the same coalition met to re-issue the same call. President Clinton did not respond. Today, we gather again ... to issue the same call for progress, for accountability, for leadership. National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, Gerald Goldstien: ..the issues which unite us far outweigh our differences. Metaksa: Federal laws must be enforced, but so must the Constitution. The tragedies of Waco and Ruby Ridge were failures of leadership and failures of policy by the BATF, the US Marshals and the FBI. Goldstein: ..we simply must put teeth back into the Constitution otherwise we are going to be out there like in so many case, gumming these agents to death. .. This is the time where we ought to be increasing our Constitutional protections,rather than dismantling them. This is a time when after Waco and Ruby Ridge where we saw demonstrable lawlessness in law enforcement when we ought to be looking for mechanism to increase our protections against egregious police misconduct. Yet the very folks who were there complaining about those misdeeds are the very folks who were bringing us watered down Constitutional protections. Center for National Security Studies, James Dempsey: The point we are raising here in the letter is that there was not a mechanism in place and as far as I know still no mechanism in place, that requires high level approval of plans to launch what was a para-military attack...high level approval might have prevented what I think we all agree on was a disaster. Simone: In all 14 civil rights organizations have joined in the call. The coalition is wary of what appears to be a tightening of the rules of deadly force but seems to be elastic. National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, William Moffett: I see absolutely no tightening of the deadly force policy. And what has to be broken is the culture that the Constitution can be broken or avoided. Simone: The coalition is also calling on Congress to reject president Clinton's anti-terrorism bill in it's entirety. Makris: Ginny you have heard about the abolition of the BATF many times before, how is this different? Simone: The Ruby Ridge hearings left a lot of the Senators aghast at the way the BATF and FBI handled the problem. Makris: You remember when the NRA first asked these questions and the media castigated the NRA for even asking the questions, now that the truth is beginning to come out you just can't ignore it. Simone: As Freeh was saying the FBI had adopted a new deadly force policy the immediate question is what took so long? Makris: Freeh admitted that promoting Potts, the internal investigations were all fine, but he admitted it was wrong. But now this terrorist bill has a shooting policy which is as bad as that used at Ruby Ridge. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- PHONE CALLS FROM VIEWERS SEGMENT...Tony and Ginny show, since Spector was a no-show due to the budget debate(it is live after all VBG) Caller:...I have heard of a federal data base which is being put together to track gun owners. Can you tell me more? Answer:...Makris: It is just one more example of the government going after citizens and not criminals. What if they would build a database of criminals, now that actually might be useful. Caller:...Following up the last caller, in Pittsburgh this is where it is going on and every gun owners house would be circled on a map. Is there something you can do about this Penn act 17? Answer:...Makris: I don't know about it but will check it out first thing tomorrow. Ginny and I don't set policy we only report on what is going on. Caller:...As I see it what is going on is setting up this new world order. There is one thing that must be done, that is to keep our guns. Answer:...Makris: There is a lot of this talk around, but after the last election I think it is getting further away. Simone: Tony you have a law enforcement background, what are the street cops saying about crime? Makris: They always say the same thing over and over, 'we arrest them but they are back out on the street in no time'. The cops essentially know who the bad guys are, but the justice system won't keep them in jail. Simone: The terrorist bill is something else. It is a real power grab Makris: It is getting to be no longer funny the federal government's response to everything is 'they need more power'. I think if you look at Ruby Ridge and Waco they have more than enough power to abuse. The best question of the hearings asked by both ...Barr/Brewster...what would have been lost by waiting? What we need to do is support legitimate police power, but come down really hard on abuses of it. Caller:...Update you on Ohio where the governor was going to veto the right to carry bill...he is denying the veto threat and is waffling on the bill. Governor of Ohio ... 614-466-3555. Answer:...Simone: The guest last week said the FOP was trying to get the governor to veto the bill. Have you had a chance to talk to any cops on the street? Yes I have, the FOP is basically a shill for HCI and the leadership is where this is coming from. Simone: Is citizens behind the bill Caller: Most of the people in Ohio where the current law denies the right to self defense, the people carry anyway. They had rather be safer and risk the state law. Simone: At the Ohio hearing one interesting testimony was from a women who was attacked and then advised to take some steps but was told NOT TO BUY A FIREARM. Then she was attacked again. Another legislature person asked if she had a dog? Makris: I working with the FOP leadership you see that one of the few things the FOP does is work for more gun control. Why they don't actually try to help the police officers. Caller:...The S-307 and S-735 bill are getting some bipartisan support, I would hope people would call and ask the Senate to not pass the anti-terrorism bill. It basically effects or limits every freedom in the Bill of Rights. Answer:...Simone: It is another one of these grab bag shopping list bills. Makris: Bill Clinton is trying to do away with everything which protected draft dodgers in the 60s. These laws were put in place because of abuse. These terrorist bills need to be defeated. Caller:...I have read several articles on the BATF and apparently when they seize property it goes into the a BATF operations kitty, I also heard the BATF is computerizing the ffl records and the BATF now has 20 or so light aircraft. Is this true? Answer:...Makris: All true. Neal Knox is working on fighting the computer records which are illegal. In some instances the property has been sold before the case has been disposed of in the courts. Simone: This is the third time a coalition has been formed to try and get some real action on federal law enforcement oversight. Caller:...I have heard they are pushing on a repeal of the Clinton gun ban. Can you tell me how long the barrels were on Weaver's shotguns? Answer:...Makris: What happens is the budget impasse is occupying the time. The repeal is just not a priority for them. The prospects are quite dim for repeal in this year due to this.... I believ it was reported the barrels were cut about 1/4 inch too short. Caller:...You two make fine guest on your own show. Have you heard of the Shooting Show out of LA, they need your support, they are on the outdoor channel. Answer:...Donna, do you see more women getting into the sport? Caller:...I shoot myself, and would like to see a group of women start a club in the area. Caller:...There is a 'Close-up Foundation' book which talks about Constitutional rights, but they have taken the propaganda right out of the HCI play book and are using it to teach people the negatives about guns. They talk about the second amendment --- it says that the second amendment protects arms needed by the national guard and militia but has not been interpreted to mean firearms ownership by citizens... The book is called 'Current Issues' and is published by the US government specifically for foreign exchange students. Answer:...Makris: Please send us the details via fax and we will look into this more. End show... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill .... bglover@netcom.com ======================================================================= Being a citizen is a full-time job. If we wish to reclaim our rights, we first must begin by reclaiming our responsibilities. More news and comments: -------------------------------- Journalism: Ever wonder why the arguments are so one sided ... why the media shows you machine guns firing while they talk about banning semi-automatic pistols? Those of you still clinging to the old fashioned - journalism is truth, pay close attention. [credits --- This nugget was stolen from 'Rush Limbaugh - The TV Show'] At a recent (10-14-95) Society of Professional Journalist, annual convention in Minneapolis Minn. a couple of votes of the members were taken. Of particular note is these three votes regarding professional conduct; 1. Journalists should present both sides of the story --- defeated. And you thought this is what journalism was about - objective reporting - nope. Telling both sides of the story is beyond their desire - doesn't fit their agenda. You might consider when you 'buy your news' does the sources agenda fit yours? 2. Journalists should be discouraged from accepting awards from people who might be news sources --- defeated. >From the first proposal we learned there is no objectivity to cloud anyway, so this is to be expected. Now you know why they sit around giving each other awards for things the common man hasn't a clue what the award is for, who gave it, or who was involved in the selection process. 3. A proposal to that Journalist should never manipulate photos, quotations or headlines in a manner which might distort the real meaning of the news story --- narrowly passed. So there are a lot who do??? I saw this headline in the Mercury News "Three Strikes author turns his sights on guns". Clearly the intent was a gun control slant. But when you read the article carefully, the author of the wildly successful CA three strikes law is starting up a new campaign to get a CA 10-20 law where you get 20 years for firing a gun while committing a felony. This is gun control I can support :-}. So you decide, is so-called news comment - or are comments news? Do you know where your news is tonight? Where does the agenda end - and Journalistic malpractice begin? I consider myself a conservative, second Amendment advocate. No pretense about it. -------------------------------- NRA Members council: I can't take ANY credit for organizing anything, just prodding others. But in the SJ-CA area we started up our local members council. Now we have prodded and cajoled 5 others to do the same in their local area - and we aren't done yet, we hope to have a members council for each major local of the bay area. Have you started one in your area yet? Do it now before it is too late. -------------------------------- Ruby Ridge -- the greatest case of 'Who's on first' there ever was: Hearings; New deadly force policy introduced by Deputy Attorney General Gorelick; Under the new policy, law enforcement and corrections officers - "may use deadly force only when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person," The new policy will apply to the FBI, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Secret Service, Customs Service, Drug Enforcement Agency, Marshals Service, Bureau of Prisons, Internal Revenue Service and Immigration and Naturalization Service. -------------------------------- Ruby Ridge - Sen Leahy at the hearings 10-19-95; "In trying to track down the after action report, I feel like I am shoveling smoke" ... "I had questioned each agent about the firearms they carried. Each testified they carried a Remington M-700 308. I went back and looked at the record and saw that agent Horiuchi had testified at the trial - US v Weaver, that each sniper carried a Remington and either a M-14 Springfield or a M-16...can you clear this up as to what the agents carried?" Freeh answered "... no I can't ... " Sen. Leahy: ... in 1992 we had 50 people in HRT, now 68, they go to 90, 565 agents in swat teams in 47 regional offices 355 agents in 9 super (enhanced) swat teams that train with the HRT. Do we really need to increase the HRT that has to deploy out of Quantico? Freeh: Yes because if we have two crisis situations at the same time we need this number of people. Freeh told a Senate hearing on the incident... "For the FBI, Ruby Ridge was a series of terribly flawed law enforcement operations with tragic consequences. I am committed to ensuring that the tragedies of Ruby Ridge never happen again," ... "We know today that law enforcement overreacted at Ruby Ridge" ... Freeh also said he could understand the criticism from right-wing groups and others who believe the government used excessive force... "We know today that law enforcement overreacted at Ruby Ridge." Read the above over again - see why George Bush resigned from the NRA? Sen. DiFi at the hearings: She starts off saying how impressed she is and how good a job Freeh is doing, and on and on and on. But, she also said this... "...one of the things revealed in the course of the testimony was with respect to intelligence gathering, the BATF had someone in the Aryan Nation compound and so did the FBI." [Actually the Aryan Nation is a front used by organized crime to find out who the agents are. It is easy to do, the Aryan Nation holds an event and all the attendees are undercover agents, just turn on the video cameras.;-}] DiFi asks Freeh about the ninja turtle Jackboots; "This is deeply troubling - Sen. Abraham alluded to it - and that's the sort of ninja clad - military style - jungle style law enforcement strategy. We are domestic law enforcement not Army. I have come to question the use of some these Army tactics domestically - ah mmm at Ruby Ridge there was going ..." DiFi asked Freeh about the shotgun toting phone-bot; "...and yet the robot that carried the phone had a gun on top of it, his wife was lying dead - how in the h... - leave out the wife lying dead, but, in view of what had happened could there be a reasonable expectation that Randy would Weaver would come out and face that robot and take that telephone." Freeh: "Senator I think it was the stupidest thing I had heard of ... I can't think of a dumber idea... " [Well I can ... how about a building where the women, infants and children were first tear gassed by tanks, then the tanks crushed the building on top of them ... all to save the children.] DiFi on Waco: Well let me give you another one then and it is not Ruby Ridge. It is the use of three tanks at Waco to inject gas when the wind was blowing the wrong way and the gas blew right out. I have heard lots of criticism... Freeh: Whether we(FBI) would have gotten so far along in that issue is a question. DiFi: My judgment would be that was a deeply flawed judgment too, and then to have no fire equipment available or present, I mean I think this goes to a basic mentality in the agency which frankly concerns me because I think there are going to be more of these incidents. [ Hey Diane, spit it out they are behaving like JACKBOOTS -- Don't think for a moment DiFi has changed one iota. She just does what is politically expedient. I remember the time when the NRA was castigated by every news outlet in the country for trying to bring this to the public's attention. Don't expect the 'old media' to apologize or even ask the NRA to sit on one of those dumb 'talk to themselves shows like - meet the depressed' and discuss this. but, If even DiFi can recognize the failings of the current direction of federal law enforcement --- innocent people are getting killed for no reason --- then... IT REALLY IS TIME TO DEMILITARIZE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE AGENCIES TO USE THE EQUIPMENT OR THESE TACTICS IN DOMESTIC LAW ENFORCEMENT. MAYBE TRUTH PREVAILS IN THE END. ] -------------------------------- Sen. Craig interview on Micheal Reagan show 10-20-95 regarding Ruby Ridge; Reagan: Why is they can never say 'we blew it'... Craig: Well we know at Ruby Ridge someone blew it. The rules of engagement were un-Constitutional, somebody wrote those rules of engagement, someone approved those rules of engagement and now the fingers are pointing in both directions nobody at the FBI is willing to say I did that. Reagan: I am not sure the hearings ended up being that good for the citizens. The FBI has these new rules of engagement but I am not sure if the rules are changed for the better. This eminent danger ... Craig: It does change the rules, but I agree with Helen Chenowith, I am not sure they are changed for the better. The difference between eminent and immediate - most citizens can define and yesterday I asked Dir. Freeh you tell me what does eminent mean ... well he defined it then. So that means those men at Ruby Ridge walking around with guns would meet the new rules and he said it would not. That is the problem...the rules need to be exact and not arbitrary. Reagan: At least they admitted over reaction. Craig: Yes they did do that...they went from wrong information, made worse, then over-reacted, then didn't discuss the issue amongst themselves and it got out of control. Reagan: Senator you said you wanted to get with Senator Spector and inject some restraint in the operation of federal law enforcement agencies ... Craig: Several of the recommendations have already gone to implementation, like the crisis management hostage negotiators tightly integrated into the teams. Is there a better way to do it. We watched Waco unfold, how long can this go on before the eyes of the TV cameras --- well I think it can go on for a long time if you get to the right conclusion. Reagan: ... when citizens sit and watch the people inside the beltway, I would say to you there is a very large spilt between the people and the government inside the beltway...people see that we are held accountable for the things we do, but then government is not held accountable for the things they do. Craig: When it came to the promotion of Larry Potts, I had said to the AG don't do this, even if we don't know if Potts did or did not approve the rules, the appearance was bad. Well they did it and it blew up in their face. Reagan: Now that the hearings are over, what do you think? Craig: One of the things Congress must do is to shoulder their oversight responsibilities. There are going to be some changes made, and I hope when we look back the public sees this. The FBI has been through a crisis of their own making, and when they look back I think they will say they we accomplished something by helping them through the process. Now that the congratulatory accolades are over - Director Freeh is the greatest director ever for the FBI - how do all these brand spanking new policies work in practice? Were they in use at Waco? Did the agents at Waco follow the deadly force policy? Were the new guidelines in effect when Koresh said 'sure, come on out and take a look.' And how about the recent Jackboot raid on the wrong building just down the street ... was this the result of the new and improved "coordination of agencies and thorough investigation before taking action so as to not needlessly endanger citizens?" Sounds to me like not everyone has gotten the word, otherwise they would have phoned the business and asked to inspect the premise and product - not send the ninjas to the wrong address and terrorize innocents. Nice try --- but we citizens are no longer so easily fooled by empty rhetoric. The hearings on Ruby Ridge are officially over. A House panel held 10 days of hearings on Waco this summer and a Senate committee has scheduled two days of testimony on lessons learned from the Texas standoff at the end of October. It is time to revisit Waco based on what was learned at these hearings. Sen. Spector is to be thanked for conducting a professional investigative hearing and getting at least part way there. -------------------------------- Summary of the Ruby Ridge hearings... Sen. Spector managed to get further than anything else has done in three years. Congratulations on a good job...at least there are some who think the truth is important. =======================================================================